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Fever's Rant #3: "Between Freedom and Anarchy"

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Author Topic: Fever's Rant #3: "Between Freedom and Anarchy"  (Read 266 times)
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« on: August 19, 2011, 08:57:18 pm Central Daylight Time »

This idea came from a discussion Kayla and I had a while back. The idea is that throughout the past two centuries, humans have fought for rights and freedom as they believed in. They had to go against the grain to get what they believed should be there in the first place. Their rights.

Was it wrong to break off from your home country to create your own? Was it wrong to then fight your own country for your own share of land? Was it wrong for African Americans to fight against slavery? Was it wrong for women to go on strike to be able to vote? Was it wrong for African American people to go against the rules to gain rights?

My point is that over time, morals have changed because the rules have changed. Two separate groups believing in two separate things fighting against each other for what they believe. But my major question is, where does it end? Today we are currently going through the process of deciding whether or not gay marriage is right or not. This is no different than the events of the past where people had to fight for similar rights. It's not about morals in this case, it's about where do the limits of freedom end and the borders of anarchy begin?

Here's a scenario for all of us to discuss. The year is 2043. Gay marriage is legal in every state in the United States. A new protest has begun and people now want the right to marry three people at once. Discuss whether or not this is right or wrong and why. And where does freedom end here in America?


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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2011, 05:55:45 pm Central Daylight Time »

LOOOOOOL

I know that **** ain't f**kin' happening!

In all seriousness freedom in America is "freedom with moral limitations."  It's good for a problem to occur one at a time.  That way, it's more focused and organized.  Sudden anarchy will cause collapse and make it challenging for things to fall back into place.  Also, it make promotes unsafe environments.  Without any sort of enforcement, people will act on sinful thoughts without caring for consequences... since there wouldn't really be direct consequences.
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2011, 06:38:44 pm Central Daylight Time »


Here's a scenario for all of us to discuss. The year is 2043. Gay marriage is legal in every state in the United States. A new protest has begun and people now want the right to marry three people at once. Discuss whether or not this is right or wrong and why. And where does freedom end here in America?


You let them do it, people should have the freedom to do anything they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. If a person wants to marry someone who is the same gender as they are, they should be allowed to, seeing as it isn't doing any harm to anyone else. If someone wants to be allowed to have three wives/husbands, while I think that's pretty stupid, it should still be allowed, since again, no one is being harmed by this.

Anarchy begins when there are no rules, or no order. It is not when everyone has equal rights and equal amounts of freedom.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 07:23:22 pm Central Daylight Time by ShuroiKami » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2011, 07:06:34 pm Central Daylight Time »

A lot of it has to do with culture.  Polygamy won't happen in this country.  If it does, it'll be met with even greater protest.


Anarchy beings when their is no rules, or no order. It is not when everyone has equal rights and equal amounts of freedom.

Good one, Mr. Shuroi. ]  Best post in the intellectual forum.
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2011, 08:31:02 pm Central Daylight Time »

But the point is that it's getting there. I do agree fully with your post though Shuroi. 
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2011, 09:01:07 pm Central Daylight Time »

Only customary issues are in disagreement.  Basic laws that deter people from committing murder, theft, etc. will always be wanted.
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2011, 09:37:33 pm Central Daylight Time »

These are the same terms I've come to with gay marriage. I don't like it or support it, but if they want to do it then fine. Just don't involve me. I say this because I know gays aren't the norm. They will never outnumber straight people.
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2011, 10:03:21 pm Central Daylight Time »

^ That's how most of America thinks. xD  Hence overall decreased political activity.
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« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2011, 12:17:18 am Central Daylight Time »

Except I'm not biased because I'm not religious and I'm not into politics. 
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« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2011, 09:19:36 am Central Daylight Time »

hmm... marriage isn't a thing that will effect the laws of man.

So i don't see any change in marriage effecting the balance of anarchy and Order. Not anarchy and freedom because anarchy is one of the purest forms of freedom.

Freedom is chaotic in nature. That's why our freedom comes with limitations by order.

There is nothing really chaotic about marriage, it is two or more people putting there things in order. As it puts their chaotic single lives to rest.

So any topic of marriage has no direct correlation to Anarchy.
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« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2011, 12:20:34 pm Central Daylight Time »

@Fever
Good point.

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Marriage is done under the law anyway.   And it is about harmony and unity.
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« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2011, 11:08:05 pm Central Daylight Time »

polygamy and gay marriage are hardly the same argument (from a a biblical perspective). simply put, while it ws not encouraged, polygamy was practised and in some of the books of the (I believe old, but it has been 10 years since I read through them again)  old testament, it was not deemed sinful by god or even abolished by mankind.

polygamy is practised, albeit illegally, in the states and canada, as are arranged marriaged, prostituation, slave trade, and so on. some of these things are morally wrong to some(polygamy, prostituition and arranged marriage) but very few(slave trade, prostituition of it is ****, arranged marriage if the person is not of age or willing,  ect..) are truly illegal AND immoral.

I don't mind 1 man/ women and 2 women/ men, 3 men/ women, or 2 hermaphradites getting married so long as they do not expect me to be okay with excessive PDA (groping fondeling, ect...). I draw the like when I can see mary and jane's junk or tom and brady's balls in my field of vision getting handled, covered in cloth or not.

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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2011, 11:49:47 pm Central Daylight Time »

@BSA

I'm not comparing polygamy to gay marriage. Just the point that marriage here in America marriage can stretched beyond origin through America's flawed system of freedom.
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« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2011, 11:55:38 am Central Daylight Time »

this thread was about fighting for rights through the ages. And what these will be like in the future.

That's fine and all but my problem was sayiny freedom and anarchy was wake yo.

Anarchy is a form of freedom. What fever ment to say was will these things disturb our Order and help create anarchy?
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« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2011, 07:03:26 pm Central Daylight Time »

Ignore the title and focus on my post.
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« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2011, 08:17:47 pm Central Daylight Time »

fever: America has always had a flawed system of freedom (as do most countries, but the stat's is just mor noticable as you guys are kinda loud and proud about some things). If you weren't giving germ infested blankets to the very aboriginals you were stealing the land from, then you were claiming victory and freedom at the price of thousands of lives lost.

As someone from a country that hasn't actually started a war (if we have it's news to me, and I am quite the history buff), and USUALLY is in war zones to restore, rebuild and keep the peace. I never got what part of americian freedom was actually "free".

You paid for the land in lies, deceet and blood. You paid for the right to be your own nation in blood and of course, you paid the price of being the wealthiest nation in terms of arms thorugh agression, attrition and extortion.

We in canada only went to war before our independance because we were told to by the crown. We paid for our freedom as well in blood, but we also got the job done when it counted in war, with our without the best weapons. Because of that we didn't have to "take our independance" we were simply "given" it. Our rep as the peace keepers and a place for all people was paid for through civil discussions and years of tireless negeotaition (SP?). The land was even bought at price, though it was also partly in blood we paid as we too killed off man of our aboriginee tribes when we first came here as british/ scottish/ irish and french and spannish/ africian settlers.

(I don't hate america, I just never got the whole "free" bit of your guys mantra as a country. the brave bit I get, but the free, with all the tax, **** up mortgage laws and extortion, I dun see it.)


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« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2011, 11:36:41 pm Central Daylight Time »

the free thing is a double edge sword, we have the freedom to wake up when ever we want, eat what ever we want, do what ever we want, learn what ever we want, go where ever we want, say whatever we want, and if we work had enough for it then live what ever kinda life we want to live and be lazy if we want, be homeless if we want, you know, we can do just about anything we want except break the law.

I'm sure Canada is the same, we juust never consider comparing Ourselves to you guys because you guys have no power and we let you have your Canadian existence. Lol just joking.

I'm not fooled by freedom, I know exactly what it is. But I'm glad I have it.
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« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2011, 12:15:17 am Central Daylight Time »

Japan > Canada > America
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« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2011, 05:41:27 am Central Daylight Time »

what is your chart there representing Fever?
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« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2011, 01:38:37 am Central Daylight Time »

Just my opinion. 
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« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2011, 05:37:17 am Central Daylight Time »

yea I get that. But, does it have specifics?? Is what I was asking.
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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2011, 03:42:49 pm Central Daylight Time »

I like how their government runs.
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« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2011, 08:02:50 pm Central Daylight Time »

the free thing is a double edge sword, we have the freedom to wake up when ever we want, eat what ever we want, do what ever we want, learn what ever we want, go where ever we want, say whatever we want, and if we work had enough for it then live what ever kinda life we want to live and be lazy if we want, be homeless if we want, you know, we can do just about anything we want except break the law.

I'm sure Canada is the same, we juust never consider comparing Ourselves to you guys because you guys have no power and we let you have your Canadian existence. Lol just joking.

I'm not fooled by freedom, I know exactly what it is. But I'm glad I have it.

Job/ life restraints/ appointments/ family needs, ect... It's true, but not actually true.

Consequneces behind actions that are considered morally/ pysically/ emotionally "wrong by others....Again, true but not really so.

I don't want to learn I owe the government money, but yet it happens at least 1 time a year....I assume this happens in america too?That's one example but I hope you get my point.

7 words: "sorry sir, your not on the list." VIP, classified, ect.. all means to keep the masses out of somethign they should be allowed to know/ do but would act rashly if they could know / do said things. again true but not true. The common example would be "I am not allowed X feet/meeters close to someone cause I flashed them, ****ed them, fondled them, fought them, or framed them in some manner." ( lovely way to explain a restraining order isn't it?)

Racial slurs, foul language ect.. while it's more true then most technically tru things, go try saying "I hate ******s" in a courtyard full of africian/ descent people loud enough that they hear you. your going to see you actually CAN'T say what you want.

I'll conceed that, but even those who work hard are not always rewarded at the end of their work life with the ability to do that. tax, market crashess, changes in family dynamic ect.. all contribute to the more seasoned of our workforces getting screwed out of retirement.

Yeah, I'm glad I have the "freedom" I do too.
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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2011, 06:20:21 am Central Daylight Time »

 I see your point but aren't disproving freedoms. Just that cause and effect is actually real.

Yea If you do some of the things you are freee to do there will an outcome you might not like but you were still free to do them if you so will.

The government isn't repressing us to where we can't go to a park and legally call black floks the N word. There is no reistriction on our freedoms to do that. We la free to take that action But the consequences of that action like getting beat by a black mob just might happen but it doesn't effect that offender's freedom.

He could take that beating and come back and say it again if he wanted and was still alive. You see my point? We have the freedom to be as stupid as we want.
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« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2011, 10:26:37 pm Central Daylight Time »

Gays would very easily overrun straight people. The human race would die off in the far future.
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