Official September 2012 Ban List

[Bakura_yami]

now on ocg this list is now the legitimate banlist

[Dragon in the Shadows]

Looks like they are trying to revive Blackwings and Agents.  Mirror Force is a dumb move in my opinion.  As for Swords, it's about f**king time.  I've been saying they needed to unlimit it for the past 3 or 4 years.  No one plays it anymore...Unless they have a stall/burn build or an Exodia/Destiny Board/Final Countdown deck, which you don't see often.  And as expected E-heros, Wind-up, Chaos Dragons and Dino-Rabbits got hit.

[ArkticDark]

Forbidden

Brionac, Dragon of The Ice Boundary
Future Fusion


Limited

Chaos Sorcerer
Evigishki Gustkraken
Inzektor Dragonfly
Inzektor Hornet
Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon
Spore
Tsukuyomi
Wind-Up Zenmaity
Ultimate Offering


Semi-Limited

Blackwing - Kalut the Moon Shadow
Debris Dragon
Rescue Rabbit
The Agent of Mystery - Earth
A Hero Lives
E - Emergency Call
Hieratic Seal of Convocation
Mirror Force
Pot of Duality
Reasoning

Newly Unlimited

Marshmallon
Necro Gardna
Destiny Draw
Emergency Teleport
Level Limit - Area B
Magic Cylinder
Swords of Revealing Light

So then this is it huh?

Then repost for page two

[PkMn Trainer]

Blackwings f*cking suck right now.  They need that extra Kalut.  Since they lost Royal Oppression I have not given a sh*t about them.
Agents having 2 Earths is fine.  I thought the Limit was a little harsh anyway.

REDMD getting Limited is wonderful.  Stunt the problem starter.  I think it's sad how hard Inzektors got raped.  Rabbits get more tech room I guess, but they'll be just a little less lethal.  All that means is Dark World gets stronger.

The new Atlantean Structure Deck is really good.  They keep up a good offense.

[BigStinkinApe]

LPD should have been hit over REDMD. thats fact.

[PkMn Trainer]

8D Sucks for the cool kids, yes.

[Fever]

I knew the other list was fake. That **** was too messed up. I knew the comfirmed list would be it  even though a couple friends doubted me. This list is good. Its a typical Konami list.

[ArkticDark]

There are a few more choices for Dragons besides REDMD yes? As far as dark dragons go

[Fever]

I'm glad. That **** needed to be limited.

[PkMn Trainer]

Limiting LPD wouldn't be too effective since all you need is 1 w/ REDMD to loop.  LPD by itself isn't a threat, so it isn't fit to be banned.  Limiting REDMD still lets you do things but it puts a severe handicap on you to prevent the bullsh*t from flying.  Pretty broke with the Chaos monsters.

[Fever]

The card is busted on its own. It needed to be limited because of Gustaph Max also..

[ArkticDark]

wut

[PkMn Trainer]

The card is busted on its own. It needed to be limited because of Gustaph Max also..

Oh yeah.  Doesn't sound like it happens a lot but... it happens alright. :/

[Fever]

Eh it could happen enough though. Its Dark Strike Fighter-esque.

[PkMn Trainer]

In Hieratics, it does happen.  I survived an onslaught but Gustav Max killed me MP2.  It was in my Duel Story using Legal Tele-DAD.

[Fever]

Why did they ban Brionac? It was the only reason Gold Series: Haunted Mine was worth buying. It be just cause they put Swords to 3. It must be that new Water support on the way.

[BigStinkinApe]

I'm going to make my explanation simple, but I also cannot just give a one liner her on why REDMD was the wrong hit, as it's a complex issue involving sevral cards and combos.

first piece of evidence as to why REDMD was not the right hit is the past itself. People may indeed have called for it to be hit since long before chaos dragons, BUT....

dragons never made waves in the competitive arena on a mass scale UNTIL 2 cards came along

Light pulsar dragon
AND(to a lesser extent)
Heiratic dragon king of atum.

With a 2500 "free" summon, recruiter to endlessly revive REDMD, it became much more diffucult to deal with something that is little better than a summon platform, just bigger than normal and a decent summon condition to give it more chances to be live. Before, you just had to mind the wyvern's in the grave and play through, now you had to deal with ensuring a light/ dark never hit the grave and stayed together, keep a running check on the number of level 5+ dark dragons in the grave at all times, and be mindful of your opponents hand in case they try for pulsar from grave via hand discards.
Atum's part is far more minor, but still mentionable because once pulsar was on field, even if REDMD was not around, all you need do is hit up a second level 6 and drop this guy out and go fetch REDMD (tossing pulsar) and there you have your instant loop lock.

With a errata on atum or even an outright ban of pulsar, not much would have changed from pre "dragons collide" release dragon decks to now.

The second piece of evidence is that there are many other sizable monsters who can revive entire fields with just one use of their effect, this alone does not make any one of them OR redmd list worthy, no the second piece of the puzzle was and still is the ability to revive it. REDMD now has pulsar and wyvern to bring it forth from grave, but this is not the soul example of a summon platform who has a underling of a similar nature who can revive it. Such examples include:General gantala of the ice barrier, gigaplant, Il blud, and potentially others. ALL of those have a monster who shares a type, attribute, or name with them that can bring it to the field once it's been yarded. Gantala has prior, plant as blazewing,and  blud has mezuki.
The only difference between REDMD and those is the card pool surrounding it VS them. Imagine if icebarriers got a "light pulsar" for them instead of dragons, or if zombies once more got a monster that can somehow make reviving undead monsters easier who works with blud and zombie master? It would be the same issue with dragons pre sept first list.  "way to easy to soft-lock into an OTK"

Reason number 3 is poor design. On the hole any monster who is 2500 in today's game sounds good, but the ones that people strive for are the ones easy to play, so the faster you can summon a big monster the better right? wrong. The skill of the game is in how well you play, not how fast you can sack.The addition of cards with bad design like pulsar, mind master, substitoad and such to already decent archetypes has always been the straw to break "the camel's back". Giving one type/ name/ attribute 1 in-house insurance/ platform card is fine. GK have chief to insure their own field does not have to do them in. GB have daruis to revive their fallen gladiators to continue on in the fight, even crystal beasts have insurance in the form of carbuncle. The problem is when the insurance/ summon platform has insurance/ a summon platform. Plants had 3 dandy and 3 lonefire to ensure endless summons, which was busted, zombies has 3 mezuki AND 3 brio/ burial to keep them going and synchronetic/ plant synchro had TGHL and self reviving tuners to keep the advantage train a-rolling.
with dragon monsters typically having the size advantage, and having a large platform to summon from hand or grave already, adding in a decent-large sized "battle summoner(think tomato)/ grave friendly(like sangan)" monster who HAPPENS to bring out the summon plat from is way too much.


Those are my reasons. IT's just a shame that even though I posted this with intent to set aside any sort of bias I had towards dragons, all people are going to see this as is 1 guy who likes dragons complaining cause they got hit, while  most every dragon user,  will see this for what it is. The facts. All this post is likely to generate is a bunch of "that's great but he should be banned not limited/ lol your wring idioms with a few comments about how this just sounds like me trying to justify 1 card people assume too good to be unlimited actually goes against their assumptions. :/ this is why I tend not to post my thoughts on card hits.

[Fever]

I'll reply to that when I get on the computer BSA.

[BigStinkinApe]

I hope to see a meaningful post then, since your taking time to tell me your going to reply then ^^.

And sorry if I ended on a downturn there, it's just when ever I post like that explaining my points on DN or other sites all I hear is "wow butthurt much", or "no your wrong"-type answers, so it get's depressing putting in so much effort and foresight to explain a point like this and get those kind of 1 liners.

[PkMn Trainer]

Instead of fixing the two they just said "Faughk it!  We're just gonna affect 1 cahd 'cause it's less work for us." :I)))  Still allows stuff for both... but less stuff.  They didn't give a single uck about Dragon Decks which haven't broken into the meta and need a little som'n som'n to survive.

[Fever]

Well Im on my phone. I cant type a wall of text.

[Fever]

Here's my points and reasons why Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon is such a good card that it was the most justified limitation of the entire September 2012 list.

- 2800 ATK is huge. Typical for Dragons but still too much when it is an easy Special Summon
- Summoning requirements are a joke. Banishing a Dragon is nothing when you get 2+ huge beaters
- It's DARK. Has access to the most powerful DARK support as it is the most powerful attribute
- Hieratic Dragon King of Atum doesn't break this. REDMD breaks Hieractic Dragon King of Atum
- The second effect is free. And you can choose the Hand OR Graveyard
- 2400 DEF is huge too. Not too relevant but it's still there.
- It's Level 10. Easy to make Gustaph Max in Main Phase 2 to finish off the opponent after a big swing.
- The second effect doesn't even target


This is why REDMD is limited. Card is way too good. I'll post a Lightpulsar Dragon one too cause I don't like that card either.

[Fever]

Lightpulsar Dragon SHOULD have been limited as well. The card reeks of broken by design because of the incredible synergy it creates for Dragon decks.

- It's LIGHT. Has support from the second most powerful Attribute in the game including itself.
- It's Level 6. Creates an easy Hieratic Dragon King of Atum and the synergy with it is off the charts broken.
- The stats are pretty solid for a Level 6 Monster. Again, typical for a Dragon type Monster.
- It can be Special Summoned from anywhere but the Deck by its own effect.
- It replaces itself with a big Monster once it leaves the Field. Typically REDMD.

[PkMn Trainer]

Good points for both, Fever.  LPD isn't bad by itself so it was OK to neglect restricting it.  It'll be harder to create the loop with only 1 REDMD for support, and they cannot have instant Graveyard setups without Future Fusion.

If they banned LPD and left REDMD, Hieratics would still be toooo crazy.  Hitting the common problem was right.  Like I said before, it's too bad for people doin' their own thing but Konami has to look at the game as a whole and control the metagame.

[Fever]

Good points for both, Fever.  LPD isn't bad by itself so it was OK to neglect restricting it.  It'll be harder to create the loop with only 1 REDMD for support, and they cannot have instant Graveyard setups without Future Fusion.

If they banned LPD and left REDMD, Hieratics would still be toooo crazy.  Hitting the common problem was right.  Like I said before, it's too bad for people doin' their own thing but Konami has to look at the game as a whole and control the metagame.

I agree. Lightpulsar Dragon was "the last straw" for Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon. But I would have preferred if they limited it too. But overall, REDMD was the biggest problem. LPD being a very close second.