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Ideal Pokemon Party

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Author Topic: Ideal Pokemon Party  (Read 414 times)
Dracian
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« Reply #100 on: July 31, 2013, 07:13:14 am Central Daylight Time »

It's not worth spending these good Pokemon so quickly.  If you see the Terrakion out, and you switch someone in, Terrakion gets a free hit on you guaranteed, like 2 because it has the bulk to survive most attacks.  That's the situation I'm talking about.  I'm not talking about getting a clean switch in ON Terrakion; it gets deterred by faster threats.  Terrakion is only sent out when he can outspeed and badly damage/KOa Pokemon.  I already stated all of this in my initial post.  I mean seriously.  Even bringing this guy to the Uber level, he's still a danger.

o_o Anyway, what's wrong with acknowledging it's hella good?

Not gauranteed, since his rock moves aren't 100% accurate. And you wouldn't use a Fighting move if you saw I had a psychic or ghost Pokemon in party (of course you might if you saw I also had a steel Pokemon, but as I said before, I don't usually take steel Polemon).

I just like to argue about the details. It's fun for me. Ask Arktic and Oujouhunter (if the b*stard ever decides to post damnit), when we all hang out, most of our time is spent arguing, criticizing, or insulting each other. It's just how we are lol. As I get more confortable here, I will argue more and more with people even if I don't fully believe what I'm arguing about lol.
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« Reply #101 on: July 31, 2013, 02:21:15 pm Central Daylight Time »

Not gauranteed, since his rock moves aren't 100% accurate. And you wouldn't use a Fighting move if you saw I had a psychic or ghost Pokemon in party (of course you might if you saw I also had a steel Pokemon, but as I said before, I don't usually take steel Polemon).

I just like to argue about the details. It's fun for me. Ask Arktic and Oujouhunter (if the b*stard ever decides to post damnit), when we all hang out, most of our time is spent arguing, criticizing, or insulting each other. It's just how we are lol. As I get more confortable here, I will argue more and more with people even if I don't fully believe what I'm arguing about lol.

20% chance Stone Edge will miss.  Doesn't change how it'll either get a kill or likely get a good hit in no matter what.

Ghosts &
(bulky) Psychic-types aren't so common that most people carry one.  Your team has to be able to fit them in & make everything work on top of that.  That's why Terrakion's difficult to deal with. o_o'''  Besides Slowbro, Jellicent is the only wall which fits all-around who has a chance against Terrakion.  Still takin' a ton of damage if 2 Stone Edges hit.  Like, we'd all agree Mewtwo hits hard, and now it has Psychoshock or somethin' to deal with special walls like Blissey.  Mewtwo's an Uber though, but on the standard level, Terrakion is almost there.

Aaand you do need a Steel-type.  Resisting Dragon, Ghost and Psychic are very useful.  I mean, it resists like 10 types.  Why not?   I think Scizor should always be considered a candidate on a team, simply because it fits its role soooo well
(revenge killer, esp. special sweeper stopper).

You guys haven't played Pokemon competitively, right?  Terrakion's just a tough cookie.  A rock cookie.  Granite.  If you don't fully believe in yourself
(for this or other arguments), just leave it be and gather more info first.   No point in repeating the same things one side has already counterargued, or if you don't fully grasp the situation.
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« Reply #102 on: August 01, 2013, 06:18:55 am Central Daylight Time »

20% chance Stone Edge will miss.  Doesn't change how it'll either get a kill or likely get a good hit in no matter what.

Ghosts &
(bulky) Psychic-types aren't so common that most people carry one.  Your team has to be able to fit them in & make everything work on top of that.  That's why Terrakion's difficult to deal with. o_o'''  Besides Slowbro, Jellicent is the only wall which fits all-around who has a chance against Terrakion.  Still takin' a ton of damage if 2 Stone Edges hit.  Like, we'd all agree Mewtwo hits hard, and now it has Psychoshock or somethin' to deal with special walls like Blissey.  Mewtwo's an Uber though, but on the standard level, Terrakion is almost there.

Aaand you do need a Steel-type.  Resisting Dragon, Ghost and Psychic are very useful.  I mean, it resists like 10 types.  Why not?   I think Scizor should always be considered a candidate on a team, simply because it fits its role soooo well
(revenge killer, esp. special sweeper stopper).

You guys haven't played Pokemon competitively, right?  Terrakion's just a tough cookie.  A rock cookie.  Granite.  If you don't fully believe in yourself
(for this or other arguments), just leave it be and gather more info first.   No point in repeating the same things one side has already counterargued, or if you don't fully grasp the situation.
'Likely' and 'no matter what' are mutually exclusive lol.
I always have at least 1 ghost or 1 psychic in my ending party. If I played competitively I would likely use a Giratina or Mewtwo.
For competitive play I understand needing a steel type (hell a couple wouldn't hurt IMO), my argument against Steel was for solo play, as it isn't much for offensive. If I was vs.ing people I would more than likely use a Genesect.
I have played competitively before, but didn't like it. Back in those days it was just who had more Mewtwo and Raikou to overwhelm you. Plus the temptation to cheat to win was too high for me.
I think the main problem I have with your argument is that you keep saying these non legendary Pokemon won't beat him, but that's just not fair since Terrakion is legendary. There aren't a lot of legendaries so the argument that 'well he is just uber' why wouldn't I be using uber Pokemon? So what's this standard level? And how is Terrakion standard since he is legendary? I will agree that he is one of the best for where his stats are. His base total is 580 and other Pokemon around that total would get killed, except for Keldeo and Virizion (and possibly Raikou, Suicune, and Mesprit/Uxie/Azelf).
Also, I definately don't argue without doing research or having knowledge. Every time we start talking about Pokemon I bring up http://www.serebii.net lol.

Lol, all this debate over a single Pokemon. Ah Pokemon, bringing people together to fuel the need for bloodthirsty animal cruelty.
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« Reply #103 on: August 01, 2013, 01:20:07 pm Central Daylight Time »

This is a good argument.
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« Reply #104 on: August 01, 2013, 11:48:47 pm Central Daylight Time »

You're playing Ubers if you're going to run Mewtwo or Giratina.  At that level, you might not see Terrakion who belongs in OU.  I'm talking about standard play.  Do you even know the difference between standard & Ubers?  Legendary =/= higher tier.  That is basic knowledge... Clearly, you have not played at a legitimate competitive level.  Mixing Ubers like Mewtwo & OU's like Raikou... pls.  I don't want to seem condescending, but... please, at least know what you're talking about before you make an argument.  That was the least I could ask in my last post.

Read up on Smogon, play on a sim like Pokemon Online and maybe then we can have a good discussion.  Terrakion's freakin' great.  Just like Salamence.  Super strong.  Difficult to switch into when they find a good window to come in & assault you.
___

Fever, to give you an idea of what his argument is, he's basically saying Blackwings (back in the day) are not that good because I can use '08 Tele-DAD.
  (Since PkMn is so intricately team-based, I have to say a whole Deck & not a card, since individual cards can get 1-for-1'd & a Deck works together - like a team ofc.)  BWAM + swarm can push for a ton of damage (powerful monsters = Terrakion).  But obviously, when you can go through 3 Malicious for Synchro Summons & drop 2 Dark Arms, of course it's gonna seem like you can handle it (illegal monsters = Ubers like Mewtwo, completely different level).
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« Reply #105 on: August 02, 2013, 12:50:55 am Central Daylight Time »

Tele-DAD back in the day was alright but Lightsworn were better IMO. Blackwings upon release were better than both too also. 2 Dark Strike Fighter. gg.
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« Reply #106 on: August 02, 2013, 07:14:37 am Central Daylight Time »

Whoa now your using terms I've never even heard about. OU? Let me look up what this is. Over Used. PFT so what? If it wins a lot, why change the formula?
I guess you need to define 'competitive level' since it sounds more like your talking about some MLG stuff. I have never gone to an official Pokemon tournament sponsered by Nintendo so I have no idea about this standard vs. OU vs. Uber stuff. But 'competitive' can be anything non-solo basically, which was where I am coming from. I used to fight against my friends. I'm guessing tournaments have rules and stat brackets like weight limits in boxing and restrictions on some legendaries? OU Pokemon sound like they are tested to be very powerful and therefore used the most often.

I don't know anything of this Blackwings thing for yugioh either, so can't verify or argue against.

HAHA I just looked up smogon http://www.smogon.com and it looks like you are mistaken sir. Raikou isn't an OU, Terrakion is. http://www.smogon.com/bw/tiers/ou Raikou isn't even an Uber. http://www.smogon.com/bw/tiers/uber
OK so after some more research OU and UBER are tier lists that have rules on what Pokemon you can't use. So my argument still holds true that Raikou, Keldo, and Virizion would still beat Terrakion. But now I'm going to use only Pokemon in this OU tier and say what can switch in and probably beat Terrakion.
Breloom, Garchomp, Gastrodon, Infernape, Jellicent, Jirachi, Keldeo, Landorus-T, Latias, Latios, Metagross, Politoad, Scizor, Skarmory, Starmie, Tentacruel, Venusaur. All these pokemon won't be one shotted (most not even 2 shotted for that matter) against Terrakion and can very likely one shot Terrakion (he has decent defense maybe not all can one shot him).
...Excadrill is an Uber? Crazy.
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« Reply #107 on: August 02, 2013, 09:01:33 am Central Daylight Time »

8===================D-----
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« Reply #108 on: August 02, 2013, 03:40:35 pm Central Daylight Time »

Tele-DAD back in the day was alright but Lightsworn were better IMO. Blackwings upon release were better than both too also. 2 Dark Strike Fighter. gg.

Hell nah Tele-DAD always wins lol.  Tele-DAD was at least like 14/16 of the top, and I beat LS consistently in Matches.  2 DSF < JDs & DADs.


Dracian, there's no use arguing small points like that. I was going to say the only time you would mix Mewtwo & Raikou (OU) is in 2nd Gen. meta, but that's irrelevant. I cut that part out since I didn't think it mattered (since it is outdated game lol).

Here's what you listed:
Breloom, Garchomp, Gastrodon, Infernape, Jellicent, Jirachi, Keldeo, Landorus-T, Latias, Latios, Metagross, Politoad, Scizor, Skarmory, Starmie, Tentacruel, Venusaur

I crossed out those who are guaranteed to get OHKO-2HKO'd upon switching in to a Choice Banded Close Combat, the most common set for Terrakion.  The Psychic-types take at least 50% from Close Combat & are cleanly killed by Stone Edge, so it's not a good idea to have them come to take Terrakion's attack. However, most of them can be fast enough to revenge kill Terrakion.  "Revenge kill" because something fell to Terrakion to allow a clean switch-in to face him.  And that is why Terrakion is so good - he's at least a guaranteed 1-for-1.

Infernape & Keldeo tie in speed with Terrakion.  They'll win if they are Choice Scarfed and Terrakion is not.  Chances are if you see someone switch in a Pokemon that has equal/lower speed than yours, it's Choice Scarfed.  From there either they attack & kill you, use U-Turn/Trick (if they have it) to mess up your switch-in, or switch again to counter your switch-in.  These kinda crucial moments define a battle.  You can never be too sure.
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« Reply #109 on: August 02, 2013, 07:26:02 pm Central Daylight Time »

Nah Tele-DAD only won because Tele-DAD was literally the format. There was maybe 1 or 2 Lightsworn decks because people chose to play it over them.

Anyway, I'm still trying to understand your comparison to Pokemon.
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« Reply #110 on: August 03, 2013, 07:05:29 am Central Daylight Time »

Lmao! I'm not even reading this stuff. Dracian don't argue pokemon facts with PkmnTrainer he is going to be right every time.
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« Reply #111 on: August 03, 2013, 08:52:22 pm Central Daylight Time »

It's a good read though.
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« Reply #112 on: August 04, 2013, 02:06:20 am Central Daylight Time »

Nah Tele-DAD only won because Tele-DAD was literally the format. There was maybe 1 or 2 Lightsworn decks because people chose to play it over them.

Anyway, I'm still trying to understand your comparison to Pokemon.


Mk let's say Dark World VS Chaos Dragons.  DW was pretty strong in its level (tier 2), but Chaos Dragon was on another plane...  Likewise he was comparing Pokemon which are on different tiers, Terrakion with Mewtwo, Lugia, those guys.  In Pokemon, tiers not only estimate the strength of Pokemon but separate competition (for balance).  So, comparing Pokemon from different tiers is unfair.  I think he should be picking that idea that up.

Lmao! I'm not even reading this stuff. Dracian don't argue pokemon facts with PkmnTrainer he is going to be right every time.

Arktic is a smart one here. Not wastin' his time!


It's a good read though.

Yes and no since it took Dracian till the end to finally catch on.  And I did have to repeat myself because he couldn't grasp my points...
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« Reply #113 on: August 04, 2013, 02:25:34 am Central Daylight Time »

Oh Tele-DAD and Blackwings? Different formats? I think that's what you meant. That makes sense.
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« Reply #114 on: August 04, 2013, 02:41:52 am Central Daylight Time »

Oh Tele-DAD and Blackwings? Different formats? I think that's what you meant. That makes sense.

There you go!
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« Reply #115 on: August 04, 2013, 02:28:16 pm Central Daylight Time »

So, what is the optimum pokemon meta party for each gen?
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« Reply #116 on: August 04, 2013, 03:43:28 pm Central Daylight Time »

But I think Blackwings are better though. First format Blackwings were wayyyyyyyyyyyyy good.
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« Reply #117 on: August 04, 2013, 05:01:57 pm Central Daylight Time »

Quote from: ArkticDark link=topic=23731st.msg72036#msg72036 date=1375655296
So, what is the optimum pokemon meta party for each gen?

Quick history of Pokemon.   From the way the games have been designed...

1st Gen was haxy, but at the same time fun because there wasn't a whole lot to worry about & battles could really go either way.  Persian had guaranteed critical hits with Slash.  Tauros was the **** MVP
(if you remember the glitch with Hyper Beam & how Blizzard had 90 acc).  Body Slam was everywhere.  Alakazam with Reflect, Recover & Thunder Wave was a boss.  T-waves put Pokemon out of commission, yo.  Rhydon & Golem were your physical walls, and Chansey & Snorlax were your special walls.  I personally preferred Rhydon & Snorlax.

I never fncked with Gen. 2.  It didn't interest me.  It was a Curse-based stall meta. booooring

Gen. 3 was where it started picking up.  Dragon Dancing Gyara/Mence, your typical fast no-setup sweepers & sturdy walls.  Choice Band Aerodactyl could just come in & kill somebody.  Blazing fast & Rock Head Double-Edge was crrraaaazy.  Jirachi was a nice bulky Subsitute/Calm Mind setup-er.  This guy has remained hard to deal with when he comes in throughout the generations.  Starmie has been around forever at the top of standard play for its amazing coverage.  The Bolt-Beam combo has amazing coverage & hits every Pokemon for at least neutral damage.  It can even Rapid Spin away entry hazards like Spikes or Recover.  Starmie has stayed this way for a long time.

Then comes 4th Gen which really set a great foundation by introducing greater diversity and correcting the physical/special split.  The introduction of Stealth Rock changed the game.  Those little chips at HP throughout the battle on your whole team really add up.  After Platinum, we go Bullet Punching Scizor, a solid revenge killer w/ U-Turn creating team synergy.  Choice Scarf Tyranitar entered the scene to counter Psychic-type sweepers with a SpD boosted by its own Sandstorm and Earthquake the rest.  You get Draco Meteor and bam, MixMence.  Garchomp & Salamence were just broken, but after they were banished to Ubers you saw people giving Dragonite & Flygon a chance.   Nicely balanced at this point.

Then 5th Gen's meta becomes fairly weather-based and the meta overall is much more offense-oriented.  The game was just atrocious before they banned Excadrill. Who thought it would be a good idea to 2x speed in a sandstorm... I mean, safe switch-in, free Swords Dance.  Whatever's next is facing the wrath of a drill that could pierce heaven.  After the short reign of Sandstorm teams, Drizzle teams took over.  The normal forme of Thundurus was hella broken.  Swift & damned Pokemon with its obliterating Thunder.  That forme was banned for that.  Nonetheless there's still plenty of hard-hitting Pokemon.  Cloyster got the blessings of Skill Link & Shell Smash.  Crazy boosts & damage.  Terrakion.  Therian Thundurus & Landorus
(animal form, noted with "-T" at the end).  Plus the return of Salamence, Garchomp & the Lati twins to show you just how crazy the game for them to be justified for standard play.  2 great walls - Jellicent & Ferrothorn - were introduced.  I got turned off here since there was too much to manage now.


But I think Blackwings are better though. First format Blackwings were wayyyyyyyyyyyyy good.

No its OK. c:

I gave you another example & you get it already lol.
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« Reply #118 on: August 04, 2013, 05:48:48 pm Central Daylight Time »

I see. Now list the 6 pokemon teams you would build for each Gen's Standard Meta that you would take to win.
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« Reply #119 on: August 04, 2013, 06:32:13 pm Central Daylight Time »

I see. Now list the 6 pokemon teams you would build for each Gen's Standard Meta that you would take to win.

Uh... I believe for 1st Gen I had Alakazam, Tauros, Rhydon, Snorlax, Starmie, Zapdos.
Didn't bother with 2nd Gen.
I only started getting into Pokemon 3rd Gen.  I'd have Starmie in there for sure.  Definitely a bulky Water-type like Suicune or Swampert.

After the sure banning of Mence/Chomp/Latis in 4th Gen. I had:
Azelf (Colbur Berry lead.  U-Turn, Taunt & Stealth Rock to handle all leads.  It can Explode later in the game to f*ck bastards like Machamp.)
Infernape (Mixed attacker & wall breaker)
Starmie (Expert Belt because I didn't like the Life Orb recoil. Secret technique: Hidden Power Fire to score free KO's on your typical Choice Band Scizor)
Vaporeon (Besides having Wish/Protect, I gave it Yawn as a near "catch-all" to whatever my opponent would send in.  Dragon Dancing Gyarados with Taunt pose a problem if they come in as Vap's healing, but Yawn's overall utility beats having Hidden Power Electric even though it's sure to surprise Gyaras.)
Scizor (Left Metal Coat on him. Why?  Usually I still get the KO's on sweepers Choice Band would guarantee me after my opponent's Pokemon have taken some damage over the course of the battle.  Fakes Choice Band so I often U-Turned my way out of Pokemon that thought they could get a free turn to set up as I switched out.  I easily take the momentum this way.)
Flygon (Choice Scarfed.  Everyone needs a CS holder on their team.  I gave it Thunderpunch specifically for fnckin' Gyarados which is probably the scariest thing for my team.  I don't like having to spend Starmie's HP early just to try fnckin' wit' Gyara.)
I also used a ChestoRest Kingdra team that took elements from this team.  It's what I used against people who knew about my gimmicky Starmie.

I didn't really play much of 5th Gen. because I didn't want to use the newer stuff.  An update of my old team above (swapping Flygon for Garchomp) did decently, but not good enough.  I'd prooobably take up a Drizzle Politoed-based team with fast killers like JolteonLandorus was banned after I really stopped playing Pokemon so I'm not totally sure what my team would look like.  I will say that I reaaaally loved Eviolite Porygon2, even though it's UU.  Eviolite doubles Porygon2's Def & SpD, allowing it to take attacks from even Salamence or Garchomp & respond with a OHKO'ing Ice Beam.
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« Reply #120 on: August 04, 2013, 09:01:22 pm Central Daylight Time »

Gen 2 had online?
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« Reply #121 on: August 05, 2013, 02:19:42 am Central Daylight Time »

Gen 2 had online?

You can choose to play any generation on Pokemon Online, but it's much harder to find matches for the older generations.  I was lucky when I did one of my 1st Gen. matches; just happened to be a smart guy who was lookin' for a game at around the same time.
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« Reply #122 on: August 05, 2013, 06:04:35 am Central Daylight Time »

Aw, I don't post on the weekends so people assume I gave up. Sigh.
Then again, the point I was going to make was made, so I don't have anything further to add really.
Also, I keep thinking of moves and Pokemon that I use to build Pokemon parties, and I can't think of a reason to switch OUT of a battle with Terrakion in the first place. I mean he's weak against Water, Grass, Fighting, Ground, Psychic, and Steel. Those 6 types are likely to be used by 6 seperate Pokemon. If not, I'm definately going to have a Dragon Pokemon or 2.
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« Reply #123 on: August 05, 2013, 12:53:41 pm Central Daylight Time »


You can choose to play any generation on Pokemon Online, but it's much harder to find matches for the older generations.  I was lucky when I did one of my 1st Gen. matches; just happened to be a smart guy who was lookin' for a game at around the same time.


So how do you do it?
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« Reply #124 on: August 05, 2013, 02:11:05 pm Central Daylight Time »

So how do you do it?

Hm? Choose generations?  Once you download Pokemon Online you'll see all the tabs. It's really easy to use.  Remember to create a team that matches the generation you want to play in.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 02:12:44 pm Central Daylight Time by PkMn Trainer » Report Spam   Logged

     STRONGER            CHALLENGER          SPEED            ENDURANCE        JAB            COUPE DE GRACE              SUNDAY PUNCH             DEMPSEY ROLL              FOOTWORK            FEINT            STRAIGHT      
       POWER             COURAGE                VICTORY          SMASH             EVASION            UPPERCUT            BODY BLOW            MOMENTUM            FLICKER JAB                  CORKSCREW            WEAVE    
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